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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| July 12th, 2010 07:06 PM |
| Kopicz24 |
Very Very Very True Wes...
and my point was just simply playing off that so point that with the way Homer has handicapped this team financially, I don't see how you resign Carter. While still locking up the other guys that are needed...
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| July 12th, 2010 08:50 AM |
| Wes |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopicz24
Do you get rid of a guy who is a large part of this team now to free up cap space? or do you move the guy you're going to have a next to impossible time resigning, after re-upping the other 2? Simply put Carter can get you more on the market, its virtually the same pay scale.
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Ideally, you don't put your team in this position year after year by overpaying for marginal and/or unnecessary players in the first place. Holmgren's done it multiple times and never seems to gain any insight on how to avoid it the next time. I've just about had enough of Holmgren's "reign of idiocy"... It's time to bring in a nickel and dimer to serve as a cap advisor and give them veto rights on trades/signings in order to save Holmgren from himself.
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| July 11th, 2010 09:55 PM |
| Andy |
THANK YOU
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| July 11th, 2010 07:55 PM |
| Kopicz24 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyB99
Carter - With the log jam at center, he could be the best candidate to go. Homer doesn't seem to content on getting rid of a 6'3 center who can skate, and who is about to enter his prime in the next 2 years.
Gagne - Is getting lost in the shadows of the other players, and I don't think they wanna trade him, but It seems like he's in the "Odd man out" situation.
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Ok the basic logic here is clear, and Bowers you hit it on the head.... But what is missing...?
Gagne, aging yes, but has more heart than half this team, does he produce like he used to? no. But how many guys do the later years in their career?
then we look at the other side, Carter. Yes HUGH potential, but he is lazy, he isn't ever going to hit that ceiling if he keeps the same methods. And does anyone really think his ways will change?
The big push why as a GM you should be considering moving Carter, and I understand why Homer isn't, is simply cause he doesn't have any knowledge of the tasks ahead of him, and just goes at it day by day.
Facts are Giroux (RFA), Leino (UFA), along with Gagne (UFA) and Carter (RFA) are all up at the end of the season. Both Leino and Giroux will get more money, Gagne will most likely be willing to take a HEAVY discount to finish his career here, and Carter, oh yeah Carter will most likely want MORE money?
Do you get rid of a guy who is a large part of this team now to free up cap space? or do you move the guy you're going to have a next to impossible time resigning, after re-upping the other 2? Simply put Carter can get you more on the market, its virtually the same pay scale.
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| July 11th, 2010 12:08 PM |
| Kop |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes
Carter and Gagne both expire at the end of the 2011 season, Carter is just RFA whereas Gags can walk outright.
Drew, Carcillo counts for zero right now against the cap, so letting him walk after arbitration doesn't really save any cap space; it just guarantees that the Flyers won't go more than the $1.4M over that they already are.
Cote hasn't been officially waived yet, but expects to... rightfully so. I just don't know why it took so long. Shelley can also be waived if (when) he proves to be a complete albatross. Bartulis is exempt from waivers and that saves $600K on the Flyers' cap number.
What I don't understand is how Holmgren doesn't learn from previous Philadelphia ventures with the cap. Volchenkov, precisely what the Flyers needed, on the open market goes to a division rival for $4.25M yet Homer chooses to burn yet another quality draft pick on a big (but soft) defenseman coming off two down seasons. Hmm. Committing to Leighton before even exploring the UFA market (Mason, Ellis, etc) was definitely irresponsible or at the very least showing that trademark "Philly loyalty that's completely devoid of merit". To add insult to injury, he goes out and wildly overspends on a marginal 4th line pugilist when the goaltending void is still gaping to say the least. Coburn at $3.2M seems like quite the stretch when the Flyers held all the negotiating leverage. O'Donnell isn't the worst signing, but again, Homer overvalues a non-essential commodity above a glaring necessity like a #1 starting 'keeper. This summer has been utterly baffling for myself and other Flyers fans. My only explanation is that Holmgren and Sutter have their own pissing competition of stupidity going on, each trying to out-retard the other.
For the record, I would support a move for Enroth and he might be had for less than one might imagine with the Sabres in desperate need of offense. Just sayin'.
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In short: "Those who don't study history are bound to repeat it..."
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| July 10th, 2010 11:21 PM |
| Wes |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall_Fan88
Makes much more sense, as Kop has already stated, to trade Gagne, than to trade Carter, who is signed for a few more years.
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Carter and Gagne both expire at the end of the 2011 season, Carter is just RFA whereas Gags can walk outright.
Drew, Carcillo counts for zero right now against the cap, so letting him walk after arbitration doesn't really save any cap space; it just guarantees that the Flyers won't go more than the $1.4M over that they already are.
Cote hasn't been officially waived yet, but expects to... rightfully so. I just don't know why it took so long. Shelley can also be waived if (when) he proves to be a complete albatross. Bartulis is exempt from waivers and that saves $600K on the Flyers' cap number.
What I don't understand is how Holmgren doesn't learn from previous Philadelphia ventures with the cap. Volchenkov, precisely what the Flyers needed, on the open market goes to a division rival for $4.25M yet Homer chooses to burn yet another quality draft pick on a big (but soft) defenseman coming off two down seasons. Hmm. Committing to Leighton before even exploring the UFA market (Mason, Ellis, etc) was definitely irresponsible or at the very least showing that trademark "Philly loyalty that's completely devoid of merit". To add insult to injury, he goes out and wildly overspends on a marginal 4th line pugilist when the goaltending void is still gaping to say the least. Coburn at $3.2M seems like quite the stretch when the Flyers held all the negotiating leverage. O'Donnell isn't the worst signing, but again, Homer overvalues a non-essential commodity above a glaring necessity like a #1 starting 'keeper. This summer has been utterly baffling for myself and other Flyers fans. My only explanation is that Holmgren and Sutter have their own pissing competition of stupidity going on, each trying to out-retard the other.
For the record, I would support a move for Enroth and he might be had for less than one might imagine with the Sabres in desperate need of offense. Just sayin'.
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| July 10th, 2010 05:57 PM |
| MikeyB99 |
Homer fucked up with some bad contracts, and now a contract HAS to go...
You can make arguments for many players.
Briere - Has a NMC, and based on his playoff performance he's not going to be asked to waive
Hartnell - If his past problems are behind him, and he can build on how he played in the SCF, there is no way he gets moved, or then we start looking way too small up front.
Timonen - Makes a ton, but no way he gets moved.
Richards - Noipe, not goingg..
Carter - With the log jam at center, he could be the best candidate to go. Homer doesn't seem to content on getting rid of a 6'3 center who can skate, and who is about to enter his prime in the next 2 years.
Gagne - Is getting lost in the shadows of the other players, and I don't think they wanna trade him, but It seems like he's in the "Odd man out" situation.
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| July 10th, 2010 04:56 PM |
| Andy |
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10000marbles
thank you for actually thinking like a GM instead of a fan
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You can think like a GM and still see a plethora of reasons to keep Simon Gagne on this team.
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| July 10th, 2010 03:47 PM |
| Drew |
Gagne on Zherdev signing:
Quote:
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"It's certainly disappointing. I signed a 5yr contract & wanted to honor it to the very end. Flyers have asked me to waive my NTC, but I'm not prepared to do that just yet. We'll see in next couple days. I've been aware about our salary cap problems. If this didn't happen this year, it would've happened the next."
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| July 10th, 2010 03:37 PM |
| 10000marbles |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kop
Not a bad move, with the cap space as the only issue. I still dont see everyones argument with the Gags vs. Carter thing, If you think logically as a GM. Sure Gagne is amazing. But, he's aging, makes buko bucks, and if Im not mistaken is the last link to the Lindros era. While the guy is a staple in Philly, Homer is looking at Carters age as his winning feature. Carts is still young and when he actually gets his feet moving and plays a heads up game, well, then Carts > Gagne. Someone just needs to light a nuke under Carter. Carter is more of a long term option as opposed to Gags who probably only got a few decent years left in the tank. Hate me for saying it guys, gotta think long term feasibility. I love Gags as much as the rest of Philly, but Homer is thinking about the future, and you have to give him that (wether or not he's doing it responsibly.)
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thank you for actually thinking like a GM instead of a fan
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| July 10th, 2010 02:33 PM |
| MikeyB99 |
As much as Carter pisses me off more so then any other player on this roster, If I had to keep him or Gagne at this stretch, It would be probably Carter. The kind of issues Carter has can be fixed if he's willing to listen, and smarten up. The kind of talent and size he has CAN'T be taught. I know how everyone says he's lazy, but it really has a lot to do with that fact that he's such a good fluid skater it appears like he's not skating hard, as where a guy like Richy is has a choppier skating style where he's moving his legs a lot harder to keep up. If Carter learns to play with more patience, with a combination of his size, speed and shot... He WILL be virtually unstoppable. Its just a question if he'll grow up a little bit, and learn to have composer with the puck. As much as I wanna see Gagne stay here, he just doesn't have the numbers anymore, and is gonna start getting buried on the 3rd line at a 5mil cap hit. People in this town seem to fall in love the "person over the player". If moving someone will benefit your team I think you have to do it. When Gagne's contract is up he could always return at a lower price. I do understand both arguments though. I just think as much as Carter is a dip shit mentally, I don't wanna give up on his "upside" just yet.
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| July 10th, 2010 02:26 PM |
| Drew |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall_Fan88
That's not true.. just a rumour floating around that he got offered a deal, where in fact he didn't.
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e5?
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| July 10th, 2010 02:20 PM |
| Andy |
I'll remember this thread if we sign Turco and he starts giving up softies and you start blowing up the shout box, asking for a real goalie.
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| July 10th, 2010 02:18 PM |
| Hextall_Fan88 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
I hate Turco. He already turned us down, why pursue that old man? And I thought we already axed Cote?
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That's not true.. just a rumour floating around that he got offered a deal, where in fact he didn't.
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| July 10th, 2010 02:15 PM |
| Drew |
I hate Turco. He already turned us down, why pursue that old man? And I thought we already axed Cote?
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| July 10th, 2010 02:14 PM |
| Hextall_Fan88 |
And I'll lose sleep because of that Andy 
Say what you want, but Turco at 2 million per would be a bargain, especially since you are practically relying on an unproven Leighton to get play 70+ games. What other goalies are there? Trading for Bernier or Enroth would mean us getting raped in the deal. Turco's agent already said publically that Marty might need to accept a 1-2 year deal for 2 million per to prove that he is worth more. There isn't really any other team that needs goaltending...
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| July 10th, 2010 02:06 PM |
| Andy |
I stopped taking you seriously when you said we should sign Marty Turco.
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| July 10th, 2010 01:59 PM |
| Hextall_Fan88 |
Makes much more sense, as Kop has already stated, to trade Gagne, than to trade Carter, who is signed for a few more years. Gagne will be looking for a 4-5 million range, long term deal in the offseason next year, and with all the unrestricted and restricted free agents this team will look to re-sign, like Giroux, maybe Leino or Zherdev, etc.. it doesn't make sense to have him around, unless he takes a sizeable pay cut, which he won't. Carter is 5 or 6 years younger, and has more potential, believe it or not. Once he gets his head out of his ass and starts playing like he has a pair, then he will be a 40-50 goal scorer. Gagne's best years are unfortunately behind him, and he's too injury prone to be counted on...
If they trade Carter for draft picks, then we will see him score 50 goals next season with a different team, guaranteed.
Trade Gagne for picks/and/or prospect. Re-sign Powe, drop Carcillo, re-sign Asham, and make an offer to Turco for a 2 year deal, worth 2-2.5 million per. As much as everyone might think Leighton is ready to be a #1, I'm still not convinced, and we need a veteran goalie who can step in if need be. Backlund or Boucher are not the answer...
Then you drop Cote on waivers, and send Bartulis to the Phantoms. That gives you quite a bit of cap room going into the season, and allows you to make a few changes, if they are desired. If not, you have room for upcoming free agency to re-sign Giroux etc...
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| July 10th, 2010 01:46 PM |
| Andy |
Well, contracts can't be restructured, so that option is thrown out the window.
I personally don't believe that Hartnell's contract is all that ludicrous. If he's going to play next season like he played in the playoffs, I think he's worth every penny. If his personal problems are really what did have such a negative affect on his game this season, then fine. It's over and done with, but the way he bounced back and became the player that he was in the playoffs was simply impressive to me. He seemed to cut down on the stupid penalties and was able to actually keep the puck on his stick. Hartnell isn't a stupid player when it comes to being in position and knowing what to do, but sometimes his skills don't reflect his thoughts. I think he turned it around, though and was much more valuable than faggot Jeff Carter was.
If Coburn plays the way he played for the majority of the playoffs, then his deal is acceptable. He wasn't an acceptable loss and that's why Homer did what he had to do to lock him up. Granted, I think he could have gotten him to bite on a high 2 million dollar contract, but it's whatever at this point.
We're definitely overpaying Meszaros and looking at the other guys who signed with other teams on July 1st, we definitely could have gotten a better bang for our buck.
Jody Shelley's contract is absolutely ridiculous and you all know how I feel about that already. Fuck him.
Personal bias aside, I just don't think that trading/waiving Gagne is the right thing to do at this point in time when you have a guy like Jeff Carter, who we obviously can't get to start working his ass off. There is going to be a team out there who is willing to overpay for Jeff Carter, much like we tend to overpay for old veterans. I guarantee it.
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| July 10th, 2010 01:39 PM |
| Kop |
And I didnt even mention Carcillo or Powe....
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